Curse

ajc2123 · Jan 23, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

You didn't give enough credit to the Elementalist class imo, but nvm that, the real issue is Spawning Power. Who gives a crap if your weapon spell will stay on for 1 to 2 more seconds? Maybe make it give them energy back each time they use a spell, compared to the original cost so they won't "break" anything :P Like a caster Ranger. Something like "You gain 1 Energy plus 1...16% of the Energy cost for each rank of Spawning Power whenever you use a spell" or "For each rank of Spawning Power, the Energy cost of all of your spells are decreased by 2%(PvP)/4%(PvE).". What do you say, Is it sounds overpowered, underpowered or balanced? Or maybe simply crap?

Your right. I didn't give enough credit to Elementalist. Feel free to put your own input on it! Understanding other classes more is the foundation of editing every other class.

I would like an energy thing like that for ritualists, however I think it should work on ritualists spells only, and maybe rit spirits. The same with some of the fast casting suggestions, is make it effect Mesmer Skills (or spells and signet, or just spells) only but keep the casting speed for every spell/signet.

I have also heard suggestions to critical strikes dealing with monsters levels. I think this is a fantastic idea personally since you were right, it wouldn't affect PvP. Maybe it could be like If critical strikes is greater then 8, then for level acts like it's 20.

pingu666 · Jan 24, 2009, 04:48 AM // 04:48

yeah making fast casting work more on mesmer skills would be good, and mesmer interupts are more costly, alot only interupt spells and have long recharge, also i tend tobe worse at interupting with my mesmer than with my rangers, by alot... dunno why :/

missing with a ranger interupt isnt a big deal, but with mesmer it is pretty painful normaly (recharge/energy), and ranger interupts will interupt something, even if its only a wanding xD

Robbert Monga · Jan 24, 2009, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by M'Aiq The Liar

Agreed. Non-interrupt spells typically take 2 seconds or more, making fast casting only really useful for when you're emulating another class. They should make it so it's 150-200% more effective with mesmer spells and signets. Really, should the class be punished because other primaries like to use their stuff?

Welcome to the elementalist club.

-Makai- · Jan 24, 2009, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

Welcome to the elementalist club.

The Rit club wishes to form an alliance.

kazi_saki · Jan 24, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

As I said in the other spawning power thread, I think Spawning power should allow:

Increase in the # of weapon spells allowed per target. For example, 7 spawning power allows you 2 weapon spells on target while 13 allows you 3 wep spells.

Energy gain whenever an item spell within earshot is created/dropped. Kinda like the soul reaping of the necro except the energy comes from people creating/dropping. It would be balanced in the sense that any rit within earshot of the item spell gains x energy depending on their spawning power lvl. They can maybe apply this to spirits too.

Nightow · Jan 24, 2009, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Besides changing spawning to make it more useful, they should also bring back the old Ritual Lord build into pve.

I mean heck, if a guy in a skirt can add 100 AL with a ton of other defenses to their party just by shouting, why can't a rit toss around a few spirits to do do essentially the same thing for their party?

kazi_saki · Jan 24, 2009, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Actually, since spirits are killable and take alot more time to create, Rits should be able to do something more/better than the average skirt-wearing man.

M'Aiq The Liar · Jan 24, 2009, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

Welcome to the elementalist club.

Well, at least elementalists get a ton of energy to play with in return, as well as some of the best energy management skills in the game. We'll join the club when monk builds bend over and rape elementalist e-management like they have the inspiration line.

warriorsmiley · Jan 24, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I have to agree spawning power is trash at best. I mostly flag run for gvg and when I have to run 3 attribute spread builds I don't even take spawning power into consideration at all just put my junk points in it. I mean yeah that extra second of warding is good it isn't going to make or break your build.

Lets me put it this way.
No heal or protection and sometimes smite monks isn't going to invest some points into divine favor.
No necro is going to enter a battle with junk points in soul reaping.
Rit's are the only class that there primary barely if ever get used skill wise and even more rarely do they run more then 6 points into it. There needs to be a total revamp of this primary attribute.

On a second note the tactic lines needs a good looking at. What once used to be a underused attribute is a never used one. I used to always go into pve with watch yourself on my bar now why bother I can buff everyones armor by 100 now.

Take note that every class added besides the core class have primary's that are built in e-management..., besides rits.

Daenara · Jan 24, 2009, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsmiley

Take note that every class added besides the core class have primary's that are built in e-management..., besides rits.

I would suggest that spawning is a form of indirect e management similar to divine favour. If your weapon spell/spirit lasts longer, then you need to cast less often. Albeit a very passive, very crappy method to manage your energy, I think that is the intention. Rits did get the short end of the stick for their primary compared to... well, everyone.

ajc2123 · Jan 24, 2009, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Ok so to recap there are two attributes everyone seems to be agreeing on.

Revamp Spawning power
Look into Tactics

Tactics will be hard to buff for a couple reasons. One is that monks usually go /W in some pvp's and bring a crapload of stances. While I am ok with how it is atm, I don't want to make them anymore powerful. Two, it is supposed to be a defensive tool, however when anyone wants to tank, which is rarely, stregth has defy pain with makes tactics basically useless.

For spawning power I think it needs a total rehaul.

Perhaps have it affect energy cost of spells while under a weapon spell, item spell, or near a spirit like expertise but with one more condition "since healers with energy management are dangerous" And then change skills like Attuned was songkai and energetic was lee sa to maybe a party energy gain?

Attuned was songkai
While holding these ashes your spawning power attribute is increased by X,,,X When dropped allies in the area gain 0...3...5 energy. Fails if spawning power <6

Energetic
While holding these ashes, spells cast 50% faster. When dropped party members gain 0...3...4 energy.

These could go along with some of the suggestions where if you drop an item spell you gain energy, or it could go with another thing.

Spells such as doom and boon of creation are probably still ok to keep the way they are.

Spirits strength.

For one think, this spell doesnt use anything about spirits at all...And making a rit go into melee range is screaming IW mesmer all over.

It could be an ally buff
"If target ally is within a spirits range, target ally moves and attacks 33% faster. X...X seconds"

Didnt put in numbers since I have no idea about what energy cost, recharge time, effect length is appropriate, but thats just a couple ideas.

Crom The Pale · Jan 24, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

I think we need a closer look at Warriors.

Strength is a great attribute as far as the skill in that line but the actual bonus is worthless. The armor penatration is far to small to really make any difference.

Something a bit more vissable would work much better. Here is just an example;

For every 3 points in strength you deal +1 damage with attack skills.

As for Tactics. I think that in order to make this a usefull attribute we need to do something radical. Make Tactics a second-primary attribute for warriors. This means that tactics would no longer be usable by other classes. This would also allow another buff to make warriors choose to use Tactics.

For every 3 points in Tactics damage you recieve is reduced by 1.

Both Strength and Tactics need to be warrior only attributes in order for them to be properly balanced.

pingu666 · Jan 24, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

id rather not lose spirits strength as it is

tatics has basicaly fallen out of favour, its mostly full of dodge stances few run anymore, and watch yourself is overshadowed by save yourselfs/paragons.

pve skills have cut into attribute lines and skills that where secondary, a dervish pretty much must carry the kurz/luxon skill, and if avataring the sunspear one... bye bye conviction and earth magic

Robbert Monga · Jan 24, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by M'Aiq The Liar

Well, at least elementalists get a ton of energy to play with in return, as well as some of the best energy management skills in the game. We'll join the club when monk builds bend over and rape elementalist e-management like they have the inspiration line.

I don't think you got the idea...
ES essentially has the same problem as FC. It only works to offset already horrible energy costs of elementalist spells. And no, ES is hardly an energy management. Attunement is.
That is all of course on top of terrible cast and recharge time on all but few selected ele spells.

ajc2123 · Jan 24, 2009, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

I think we need a closer look at Warriors.

Strength is a great attribute as far as the skill in that line but the actual bonus is worthless. The armor penatration is far to small to really make any difference.

Something a bit more vissable would work much better. Here is just an example;

For every 3 points in strength you deal +1 damage with attack skills.

As for Tactics. I think that in order to make this a usefull attribute we need to do something radical. Make Tactics a second-primary attribute for warriors. This means that tactics would no longer be usable by other classes. This would also allow another buff to make warriors choose to use Tactics.

For every 3 points in Tactics damage you recieve is reduced by 1.

Both Strength and Tactics need to be warrior only attributes in order for them to be properly balanced.

That in my opinion wouldn't make a difference. People who wanted damage decreasing that much will still bring Defy pain, giving them more damage from your suggested strength with + health + armor + damage reduction Plus 1 damage reduction for putting tactics at 3 with left overs. While their armor penetration is low, they are still tops in Damage per second (needs extra skills in HM to make is so but in pvp and nm pve they are tops in dps) with their low armor penetration.

Because Strength has so many useful skills to the warrior profession, it is a staple, and the low armor penetration never hurt it either. I think Strength is fine.

Tactics is hard to buff since its loads of stances and little attack skills.

Crom The Pale · Jan 24, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

That in my opinion wouldn't make a difference. People who wanted damage decreasing that much will still bring Defy pain, giving them more damage from your suggested strength with + health + armor + damage reduction Plus 1 damage reduction for putting tactics at 3 with left overs. While their armor penetration is low, they are still tops in Damage per second (needs extra skills in HM to make is so but in pvp and nm pve they are tops in dps) with their low armor penetration.

Because Strength has so many useful skills to the warrior profession, it is a staple, and the low armor penetration never hurt it either. I think Strength is fine.

Tactics is hard to buff since its loads of stances and little attack skills.

You forget that [Defy Pain] is an elite skill and using it greatly decreases your dps. Not to mention that once both Tactics and Strength are warrior only attributes a better balancing of skills in both of those lines could be done.

br0thergr1m · Jan 24, 2009, 10:02 PM // 22:02

My Primary is a Rit, and there really is no reason for me to play him over a N/Rt other then I'm a one character guy, and I have so many titles on him. Yes I do feel Spawning power is gimped...big time. However I disagree with some of the energy proposals, only because Rits have the best energy management skills in the game imo. Offering of Spirt....Lee Sa...Songai. I never run out of energy as it is. I would rather it have some alternative effect maybe bump the current percentages way up...like 25-50% more health per point (spirits), the same with weapon spells....maybe remove the (after 3-4 attacks) and have it totally dependent on spawning power. As it is...spirits die quick anyway. Little to no armor...it doesnt matter they get destroyed pretty quickly. Maybe add a dps % to spirts, % chance to evade attacks, % to attack faster...anything. I just dont feel as if Energy is something this class needs. As it stands now its just left over points dumped in unless you are running a spirit strength build.

Robbert Monga · Jan 24, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Tactics will be hard to buff for a couple reasons. One is that monks usually go /W in some pvp's and bring a crapload of stances. While I am ok with how it is atm, I don't want to make them anymore powerful. Two, it is supposed to be a defensive tool, however when anyone wants to tank, which is rarely, stregth has defy pain with makes tactics basically useless.

The problem with tactics (and stanses in particular) is not that it is powerful or weak, but that it is too penalizing for warrior, making it pretty much NOT a warrior attribute.
Look at the ranger stances. You get blocking AND extra random buff. Tactics? You get blocking + cute lil penalty that applies to nobody but warrior. Cool huh?

This is not fixable by just adjusting some numbers. Tactics skills need a major rework, which I seriously doubt will ever happen.

Jan 24, 2009, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by br0thergr1m

My Primary is a Rit, and there really is no reason for me to play him over a N/Rt other then I'm a one character guy, and I have so many titles on him. Yes I do feel Spawning power is gimped...big time. However I disagree with some of the energy proposals, only because Rits have the best energy management skills in the game imo. Offering of Spirt....Lee Sa...Songai. I never run out of energy as it is. I would rather it have some alternative effect maybe bump the current percentages way up...like 25-50% more health per point (spirits), the same with weapon spells....maybe remove the (after 3-4 attacks) and have it totally dependent on spawning power. As it is...spirits die quick anyway. Little to no armor...it doesnt matter they get destroyed pretty quickly. Maybe add a dps % to spirts, % chance to evade attacks, % to attack faster...anything. I just dont feel as if Energy is something this class needs. As it stands now its just left over points dumped in unless you are running a spirit strength build.

The problem is that offering of spirit is in channeling magic (usable by other professions).

Personally, I'd like to see a mix of : (faster casting of spirits (5 seconds cast is awful) and energy gain when casting a weapon spell) OR (spirits have a x% of ignore dmg (make them bit more useful in pvp!) and a y% of "critical healing", similar to "critical hit" (x2 heal for example)).

Then, move some skils (some elites too!) to spawning power to make the profession more interesting to play primary...

pingu666 · Jan 25, 2009, 12:46 AM // 00:46

dont the ranger stances have a long recharge time compaired to length of useage?